Discussion: Argument Analysis

Number of replies: 133

Try to formulate examples of three important patterns of argument: modus ponens, modus tollens, and reductio. Then, for this argument sent to a newspaper by a reader responding to an article claiming that Shakespeare was Italian, identify the argument's main conclusion and spell out the argument's premises. 

"So Shakespeare was an Italian, because almost half of his plays are set in Italy. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space – does that mean he was a Martian?" – Graham Simpson

Share your thoughts on the discussion forum. Make sure to review and respond to other students' posts, as well.

In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Colte Rindlesbach -
Modus Ponens:
All thumbs are fingers, bill has two thumbs. who has at least two fingers? that guyyyy (bill)

Modus tollens:
if Beth stole 100K then there would be at least 100K in her off shore bank account. There is not at least 100K in her off shore bank account. therefore, she couldn't have stolen the money

Reductio:
If we could obtain world peace through only telling the truth all the time, all people would have times where they would need to say hard truths. hard truths have been known to hurt people. Hurting people is not peaceful. therefore, the solution to world peace cannot be telling the truth all the time.

Shakespeare argument
P1) shakespeare was from italy
P1 a.) Almost half of his plays were set in italy.
P2) Almost all of Asimovs books were set in space.
C) therefore, Isaac Asinov Must be from space
( If the majority of a writers work takes place in a specific setting then they must have grown up/raised/from that place.) 
In reply to Colte Rindlesbach

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by John Heathcliff -
Hi Colte,

I liked your Reductio example because its such a common misconception and used to rationalize not telling the truth or doing the hard work to find a nice way to tell a hard truth.

I am not sure the conclusion you show if the right one because Graham Simpson poses it as a question.
In reply to Colte Rindlesbach

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Dianne Bautista -
This discussion prompt invites an exploration of logical argument structures modus ponens, modus tollens, and reductio ad absurdum while critically analyzing a claim about Shakespeare’s nationality.

The reader’s argument responds to the claim that Shakespeare was Italian by presenting an analogy:

1. Many of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.


2. Therefore, Shakespeare was Italian.


3. However, almost all of Isaac Asimov’s novels are set in outer space.


4. Does that mean Asimov was a Martian?



Identifying the Argument’s Structure:

This is an example of reductio ad absurdum, where an assumption (Shakespeare’s Italian identity) is shown to lead to an absurd conclusion (Asimov being a Martian).

The main conclusion of the argument is that setting a story in a place does not determine the author’s nationality.

The premises highlight the flawed reasoning behind the original claim.


Now, let’s apply modus ponens and modus tollens to this scenario:

1. Modus Ponens (If P, then Q)

If being Italian means writing about Italy, then Shakespeare was Italian.

Shakespeare wrote about Italy.

∴ Shakespeare was Italian. (This is the reasoning the reader critiques.)



2. Modus Tollens (If P, then Q. Not Q, therefore not P)

If writing about a place means being from there, then Asimov was Martian.

Asimov was not Martian.

∴ Writing about a place does not mean being from there. (This is the logical refutation.)
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Catherine Quinn -
Modus Ponens:
If I wash my hair, my hair will be wet. I am washing my hair. Therefore, my hair is wet.

Modus Tollens:
If the fire alarm goes off, then there is a fire. There is no fire. Therefore, the fire alarm did not go off.

Assumption: All cats are black.
Reductio: If all cats are black, and we encounter a white cat, it contradicts the initial assumption that all cats must be black. Therefore, the assumption that all cats are black leads to an absurdity.

Conclusion: Shakespeare was not Italian.

Premisses:
- Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
- Drawing an analogy, Graham presents the case of Isaac Asimov, noting that almost all of Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
- The analogy questions the validity of the claim that setting works in a particular location implies the origin of the creator, suggesting that if we follow this logic, Isaac Asimov would be considered a Martian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Desiree Polo -
Types of Argumentation:
1. Modus Ponens:
If P, then Q.
P is accurate.
Q is therefore true.
For instance, the grass becomes wet when it rains. It's pouring with rain. The grass is damp as a result.

2. Modus Tollens:
If P, then Q.
Q is untrue.
P is thus untrue.
Example: I'll pass the exam if I study diligently. I didn't finish the test. I did not study very hard as a result.

3. Limitation to the absurd:
Assume that the conclusion is false (not P).
Demonstrate how this results in an absurdity or contradiction.
As a result, the first conclusion (P) had to be accurate.
Example: Assume that zero (not P) cannot be used to divide an integer. One divided by zero. This results in the contradiction and nonsensical assertion 1 = 0. Consequently, zero (P) may be used to divide numbers.

Evaluating the Argument of Graham Simpson:

Primary Finding: Shakespeare was not of Italian descent.

Shakespeare wrote plays that are almost entirely set in Italy.
The majority of Isaac Asimov's books take place in space.
It was not a Martian Asimov.

Justification:
By comparison, Graham Simpson applies a type of reductio ad absurdum. He applies the same reasoning to another author (Asimov) and assumes the reverse of what the newspaper claims—that Shakespeare was Italian. Simpson demonstrates that Asimov's Martian identity is nonsensical given his space-themed literature, implying that Shakespeare and Italy do not follow the same reasoning. This leads to an absurdity, exposing the faulty logic in the first assertion.

It's crucial to remember that Simpson's example is not flawless. Fictional locales can provide details about an author's history, but they do not prove a writer's nationality. Shakespeare was not Italian, despite the fact that his reasoning successfully refutes the newspaper's assertion.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Olha Semeniuk -
here are examples of each pattern of argument:

Modus Ponens:

If it's raining (P), then the streets are wet (Q).
It's raining (P).
Therefore, the streets are wet (Q).
Modus Tollens:

If it's snowing (P), then the ground is covered in snow (Q).
The ground is not covered in snow (¬Q).
Therefore, it's not snowing (¬P).
Reductio ad Absurdum:

Suppose we want to prove that all triangles have four sides.
Assume a triangle (A) has three sides.
If we add one more side to the triangle, it now has four sides.
But that contradicts the definition of a triangle.
Therefore, our initial assumption that all triangles have four sides leads to an absurd conclusion, thus proving that all triangles do indeed have three sides.
Now, for the argument sent to the newspaper by Graham Simpson:

Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian.

Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
Setting works of fiction in a particular location does not necessarily indicate the origin of the author.
Isaac Asimov, known for his science fiction novels, frequently set his stories in outer space.
It would be illogical to conclude that Asimov was Martian simply because he set his stories in outer space.
In reply to Olha Semeniuk

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Felix Mercado -
Explanation of Argument Patterns:

Modus Ponens (Affirming the Antecedent):
If P, then Q.
P is true.
Therefore, Q is true.
My Example: "If it is snowing, then the ground is white. It is snowing. Therefore, the ground is white."

Modus Tollens (Denying the Consequent):
If P, then Q.
Q is not true.
Therefore, P is not true.
My Example: "If the headlamps are on, then its dark outside. The headlamps are not on. Therefore, its not dark outside."

Reductio ad absurdum (Proof by contradiction):
Assume P is true.
From P, it logically follows that a contradiction occurs (Q and not-Q are both true).
Therefore, P must be false.
My Example: "Assume that mermaids exist. Since mermaids are mythical creatures, they would have to be both real and not real at the same time. This is a contradiction, so mermaids cannot exist."

Analysis of the Argument:
Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not Italian.

Premises:
"Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy."
"Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space."
"This does not mean Isaac Asimov was a Martian."
(Implied premise) The location where a writer sets their stories is not necessarily indicative of their nationality.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by John Heathcliff -
MP: If one drinks a full bottle of whiskey at a party, one would be legally drunk. I drank a full bottle of whiskey at a party, therefore I am legally drunk.
MT: If one drinks a full bottle of whiskey at a party, one would be legally drunk. I did not drink whiskey or any other alcohol at the party, therefore I am not legally drunk.
Reductio ad Asurdum: There are 16 shots in a bottle of whiskey. If one starts drinking whiskey in the morning and only drinks one shot of whiskey per hour one will not be as drunk as if one drinks a full bottle of whiskey at a party.

P1 If Shakespeare is an Italian because almost half his were set it Italy
P2 Then, Isaac Asimov could be a Martian since almost all of his novels are set in outer space
C Shakespeare is as likely to be an Italian as Asimov is to be a Martian.
In reply to John Heathcliff

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Gift Kabengele -
That is a very good analysis and proper understanding of the Shakespeare's analytical pedegreee
In reply to John Heathcliff

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Ryan Theobald -
Great use of a single bottle of whiskey to develop your three arguments.

I appreciate your breakdown of Shakespeare and Asimov and determining where they hail from. I took the passage or more definitive, where you used probability, well done.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jayne Boehme -
Modus Ponens: If human, then breathing is required. Ed is human. Therefore, he must breathe.
Modus Tollens: If z is a skilled potter, then z handles clay. Z does not/has not handled clay. Therefore, z is not a skilled potter.
Reductio: Sel is a happy person. Sel has no friends or family. Therefore, Sel is not a happy person.

P1) More than half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy;
P2) (sub conclusion) therefore, Shakespeare was Italian.
P3) (parallel to P1) Almost all of Asimov's novels are set in outer space;
Conclusion (parallel to P2): therefore, Asimov is a Martian/from outer space?
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by asifa shaikh -
Modus Ponens:
If I wash my hair, my hair will be wet. I am washing my hair. Therefore, my hair is wet.

Modus Tollens:
If the fire alarm goes off, then there is a fire. There is no fire. Therefore, the fire alarm did not go off. 

Assumption: All cats are black.
Reductio: If all cats are black, and we encounter a white cat, it contradicts the initial assumption that all cats must be black. Therefore, the assumption that all cats are black leads to an absurdity. 

Conclusion: Shakespeare was not Italian.

Premisses:
- Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
- Drawing an analogy, Graham presents the case of Isaac Asimov, noting that almost all of Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
- The analogy questions the validity of the claim that setting works in a particular location implies the origin of the creator, suggesting that if we follow this logic, Isaac Asimov would be considered a Martian

In reply to asifa shaikh

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jessica Blackburn -
Excellent work! Your examples for Modus Ponens, Modus Tollens, and Reductio ad Absurdum demonstrate a clear understanding of these argument patterns.

In the Modus Ponens example, you show that if the premise (washing your hair) is true, it leads to the expected conclusion (wet hair). Similarly, your Modus Tollens example shows how a false conclusion (no fire) disproves the premise (fire alarm going off).

The Reductio example effectively highlights how an initial assumption (all cats are black) can lead to an absurdity when faced with contradictory evidence (a white cat), thus disproving the initial assumption.

Regarding the Shakespeare argument, you've identified the main conclusion and outlined the premises accurately. The conclusion that Shakespeare was not Italian is drawn by highlighting the absurdity of connecting an author's work setting to their origin, as shown in the analogy with Isaac Asimov.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Rehan Ullah -
Examples of the three important patterns of argument:

1. Modus Ponens:
If A, then B.
A.
Therefore, B.
Example: If it is raining, then the ground will be wet. It is raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.

2. Modus Tollens:
If A, then B.
Not B.
Therefore, not A.
Example: If it is raining, then the ground will be wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it is not raining.

3. Reductio ad Absurdum:
Assume A.
Deduce a contradiction.
Conclude that the assumption is false.
Example: Assume that all cats can fly. If all cats can fly, then they should be able to fly to the moon. This leads to a contradiction, as it is not possible for cats to fly to the moon. Therefore, the assumption that all cats can fly is false.

Now, for the argument sent to the newspaper by the reader:

Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian.

Premises:
1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
2. Isaac Asimov's novels are mostly set in outer space.
3. Asimov being associated with outer space doesn't make him a Martian.

In this argument, the reader is using a form of reductio ad absurdum to challenge the claim that Shakespeare was Italian. By comparing Shakespeare's plays being set in Italy to Asimov's novels being set in outer space, the reader highlights the absurdity of concluding Shakespeare's nationality based solely on the setting of his works. Thus, the main conclusion is that Shakespeare's works' settings do not determine his nationality, and the premises support this by showing the fallacy in making such an inference.
In reply to Rehan Ullah

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Amya Nyepha -
Your explanation makes it clear how the reader uses this reasoning to demonstrate that the location of a story does not necessarily reflect the identity or background of the author. It’s a clever way to show that the conclusion about Shakespeare’s nationality is unfounded.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Erin Berger -
Modus ponens: If the sun is shining then the ground is warm. The sun is shining. Therefore, the ground is warm.
Modus tollens: If the car is on then the keys are in the ignition. There are no keys in the ignition. Therefore, the car is not on.
Reductio: 'Money buys happiness' is an absurd statement as money can be used to fund lots of activities that lead to sadness and destruction.

The main conclusion to the argument is that where your plays are set, that means the creator is from that location.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Beato Candundu -
Modus ponens
Everyday it rains in the city. When it rains it gets slippery. Today it rained therefore it is slippery.

Modis Tollens
Marcus killed his girlfriend. At the alleged time of the killing Marcus was giving a lecture in Taipri. Therefore Marcus could not have killed his girlfriend.

Reductio
Forest fire arson setting is said to help clear the forest. Fire arson is known to destroy the wilderness habitat. Forest fire is illegal in most of the countries. Therefore, fire settings does not do good to the ecosystem.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Daniel Sosa -
If your mom lives in New York City, she lives in the U.S. Your mom lives in New York City. Therefore, she lives in the U.S.
If your mom lives in New York City, she lives in the U.S. Your mom does not like in the U.S. Therefore, your mom does not live in New York City.

An interesting topic. If they are referring to ethnicity, there is a chance of countering Graham's argument. But if they are referring to race, he might have a valid argument.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Ahmed Abdirahman Ahmed -
Greetings to all classmates,

Modus ponens is a valid argument form that follows the principle of affirming the antecedent. It can be summarized as follows: if we have a conditional statement "If P, then Q" as the first premise, and we know that P is true as the second premise, then we can logically conclude that Q must also be true as the conclusion (PhilosophyALevel.com, 2023). 

On the other hand, modus tollens is a valid argument form that operates by denying the consequent (PhilosophyALevel.com, 2023). It can be summarized as follows: if we have a conditional statement "If P, then Q" as the first premise, and we know that Q is not true as the second premise, then we can logically conclude that P must also not be true as the conclusion. 

In contrast to modus ponens and modus tollens, reductio ad absurdum is an argument form that aims to disprove a claim by showing that assuming its truth leads to an absurd or contradictory conclusion. It involves assuming the opposite of what is being argued and then demonstrating that it leads to an absurd or contradictory result. By showing the absurdity of the assumed position, we can refute the original claim. 

Modus ponens example: 
Premise 1: If a camel has milk, then it can be milked. 
Premise 2: The camel has milk. 
Conclusion: Therefore, the camel can be milked. 

 

Modus Tollens examples:  
Premise 1: If a country experiences a civil war, then there is significant internal conflict.
Premise 2: There is no significant internal conflict. 

Conclusion: Therefore, the country is not experiencing a civil war. 


Claim: It is possible to use the net (computer network) without the internet. 
 Assumption: It is not possible to use the net without the internet. 

 If it were not possible to use the net without the internet, it would mean that local computer networks, such as LANs, could not function independently. However, LANs are widely used for internal communication and file sharing, contradicting the assumption. Therefore, the claim that it is possible to use the net without the internet holds true, as the assumption leads to an absurdity. 

Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian. 
Premises: 
Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy. 

Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space, but that doesn't mean he was a Martian. 


Obviously, Shakespeare was an English poet. According to Biography.Com Editors and Donica (2023), William Shakespeare, a renowned English poet, playwright, and actor of the Renaissance era, played a significant role as a member of the King's Men theatrical company starting around 1594. Shakespeare's literary contributions, including a minimum of 37 plays, 154 sonnets, and 2 narrative poems, have gained worldwide recognition for their profound exploration of human emotions, conflicts, and have continued to be celebrated for over four centuries. 

 

References: Biography.Com Editors., & Donica, A. (2023, April 21). William Shakespeare. https://www.biography.com/authors-writers/william-shakespeare 

PhilosophyALevel.com. (2023, May 28). If P then Q: Modus Ponens, Modus Tollens, Affirming the Consequent, and Denying the Antecedent. https://philosophyalevel.com/posts/if-p-then-q-modus-ponens-modus-tollens/ 

 


In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Cris Hass -
Modus ponens
If I go to the beach, I will get tan. I went to the beach. Therefore I am tan.

Modus tollens
If I get arrested, I broke the law. I didn't break the law, so I didn't get arrested

Reductio
Joe fell off the top of a building, so Joe must have died.
Not necessarily, if firefighters were at the bottom ready to catch him he could have survived.

Shakespeare argument
P1) Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy
P2) Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
C) Shakespeare is just as likely to be Italian as Isaac Asimov is to be a Martian
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Saurabh Umbarkar -
Types of Argumentation:
1. Modus Ponens:
If P, then Q.
P is accurate.
Q is therefore true.
For instance, the grass becomes wet when it rains. It's pouring with rain. The grass is damp as a result.

2. Modus Tollens:
If P, then Q.
Q is untrue.
P is thus untrue.
Example: I'll pass the exam if I study diligently. I didn't finish the test. I did not study very hard as a result.

3. Limitation to the absurd:
Assume that the conclusion is false (not P).
Demonstrate how this results in an absurdity or contradiction.
As a result, the first conclusion (P) had to be accurate.
Example: Assume that zero (not P) cannot be used to divide an integer. One divided by zero. This results in the contradiction and nonsensical assertion 1 = 0. Consequently, zero (P) may be used to divide numbers.

Evaluating the Argument of Graham Simpson:

Primary Finding: Shakespeare was not of Italian descent.

Shakespeare wrote plays that are almost entirely set in Italy.
The majority of Isaac Asimov's books take place in space.
It was not a Martian Asimov.

Justification:
By comparison, Graham Simpson applies a type of reductio ad absurdum. He applies the same reasoning to another author (Asimov) and assumes the reverse of what the newspaper claims—that Shakespeare was Italian. Simpson demonstrates that Asimov's Martian identity is nonsensical given his space-themed literature, implying that Shakespeare and Italy do not follow the same reasoning. This leads to an absurdity, exposing the faulty logic in the first assertion.

It's crucial to remember that Simpson's example is not flawless. Fictional locales can provide details about an author's history, but they do not prove a writer's nationality. Shakespeare was not Italian, despite the fact that his reasoning successfully refutes the newspaper's assertion.
In reply to Saurabh Umbarkar

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Shaqoria Hay -
Oh I like how you used math as your Reductio that was a great idea. I feel like we often believe since a person spends most of their time in a particular place or they always speak about places in such high standard that an individual may be from there or they may love that place. Like you said we have to remember that fictional locales can provide detail, but does not tell a persons nationality. I feel we have to be careful and make sure we are paying attention to certain key words because it does give hints that this is not something true.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by diana kydd -
Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
Isaac Asimov's novels are mostly set in outer space.
If setting plays or novels in a particular location implies the origin of the writer, then Isaac Asimov would be considered a Martian.
It is absurd to conclude that Isaac Asimov is a Martian based solely on the setting of his novels.
Argument structure:

Premise: Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
Premise: Isaac Asimov's novels are mostly set in outer space.
Premise: If setting plays or novels in a particular location implies the origin of the writer, then Isaac Asimov would be considered a Martian.
Premise: It is absurd to conclude that Isaac Asimov is a Martian based solely on the setting of his novels.
Conclusion: Therefore, Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Michael Starnes -
Modus Ponens:
Example: If it's raining, then the streets will be wet. It's raining. Therefore, the streets are wet.
Modus Tollens:
Example: If it's raining, then the streets will be wet. The streets are not wet. Therefore, it's not raining.
Reductio ad Absurdum:
Example: If everyone drove a pink car, traffic accidents would decrease. That's absurd, so not everyone should drive a pink car.
Now, let's analyze the argument sent to the newspaper by Graham Simpson:

Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian.

Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy. Setting a significant number of works in a particular location does not necessarily imply the creator's nationality or origin. An analogy is drawn with Isaac Asimov, whose novels are predominantly set in outer space, but that doesn't imply he was a Martian.
So, Simpson's argument suggests that just because a significant portion of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy, it doesn't logically follow that he must have been Italian. He uses the analogy with Isaac Asimov to illustrate that an author's choice of setting does not determine their nationality or origin. Therefore, Simpson refutes the claim that Shakespeare was Italian based solely on the setting of his plays.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by monica thompson -
Modus Ponens
If its snowing outside then it must be cold. It is snowing, therefore it is cold.

Modus Tollens
If its snowing outside then it must be cold. It is not cold, therefore it is not snowing.

Reductio
Kids should always be happy. Brushing teeth makes kids unhappy so should shouldn't be forced. Not brushing teeth causes pain and tooth rot. Pain makes kids unhappy.

1 - Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set it Italy
2 - Shakespeare was an Italian (from 1)
3 - Almost all of Asimov's novels are set in outer space
4 - Asimov was a Martian (from 1-2, 3)
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by JOSAFAT VANDULF ELANO -
Simpson uses a form of reductio ad absurdum by showing that if we apply the same logic to Asimov, we would conclude he's a Martian, which is clearly absurd. Therefore, he implies that the argument claiming Shakespeare was Italian based on play settings alone is flawed.
In reply to JOSAFAT VANDULF ELANO

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Shaqoria Hay -
You gave us the second part in basic logic. I feel like when we say certain things we do not often pay attention to the key words being used. Because we all know that Shakespeare based to give you an Italian feeling but it does not mean that his nationality has to be Italian or he has to be from Italy. And your right coming to and assumption that some is a Martin based of the scenery of how something looks is absurd.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by JOSAFAT VANDULF ELANO -
Simpson uses a form of reductio ad absurdum by showing that if we apply the same logic to Asimov, we would conclude he's a Martian, which is clearly absurd. Therefore, he implies that the argument claiming Shakespeare was Italian based on play settings alone is flawed.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by WLLM12 G -
Example: If it's raining, then the ground is wet. It's raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.
Modus Tollens:

Example: If it's raining, then the ground is wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it's not raining.
Reductio ad Absurdum:

Example: If cats can fly, then they have wings. Cats don't have wings. Therefore, cats can't fly.
Argument on Shakespeare's Nationality:

Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian.
Premises:
Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
Isaac Asimov's novels are mostly set in outer space.
It doesn't mean Asimov is Martian.
In Graham Simpson's argument, the main conclusion is that just because Shakespeare's plays are often set in Italy, it doesn't necessarily mean he was Italian. This is supported by the comparison to Isaac Asimov's novels, which are predominantly set in outer space, yet he is not assumed to be Martian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Valentin Ionescu -
Modus ponens: If you are good, you'll go to heaven. You are good. So you'll go to heaven.
Modus tollens: If I like the joke, then I laugh. I'm not laughing, therefore I don't like the joke.
Reductio: Gravity exist. If not, we would float into space.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Ryan Theobald -
Modus Ponens – If the clouds are dark it will rain. The clouds are dark; therefore it will rain.
Modus Tollens – If Kyle is working then he has an income. Kyle does not have an income; therefore, he is not working.
Reductio – Someone argues that video games require a television to play. The assumption is a TV is the only way to visually display a video game. Reductio ad absurdum can be used to counter the argument saying that a laptop can be used to play video games. This disproves the original argument. Therefore their argument is invalid.

Main Conclusion – Shakespeare was an Italian.
Premise – half of his plays are set in Italy
Premise through analogy – Isaac Asimov writes about outer space which means he is a martin.
The analogy leads the reader to believe that the authors must come from where they stage the bulk of their work.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Shaqoria Hay -
Modus ponens- Knees are apart of the body. Jenny has two knees. Who has two knees?
Modus tollens- It is raining. Then ground is wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it is not raining.
Reductio- All rainbows have a portal. Then we should be able to access the portal. This leads to a contradiction it is not possible to access portal through rainbows.

P1-States Shakespeare is Italian because his plays were mostly in Italy.
p2-States Asimov's because his novel are based in outer space he was a Martin.
C- Just because an induvial base something off a particular area doesn't mean that it is true. That induvial may prefer that setting or environment it may help them get great ideas or it could be their peaceful place to work.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Leslie Tapper -
Modus ponens: If the number 2 is even. And even numbers are divisible by 2 without leaving a remainder. Then the number 2 will always be an even number.
Modus tollens: It's sunny so it's warm. It is not warm today. So it is not sunny.
Reductio: All short people are always angry, but most short people are kind unless provoked and the definition of 'short' can vary from person to person. So every short person isn't always angry.

Shakespeare:
P1. Shakespeare was Italian because almost half his plays are set in Italy.
P2. Issac's novels are set in outer space so he was a martian.
Conclusion: Shakespeare was italian because of the location of majority of his plays. (an absurd counterarg?)
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Siddika Koly -

1. Modus Ponens: If I had a car, I would have gone there, I don't have a car, so I didn't go.


2. Modus tollens: If there was Karim, Rahim would have done well. Rahim didn't do well, Karim wasn't there 


3. I have a flying car, therefore I can fly


Argument analysis: 

Conclusion: Shakespeare isn't Italian

Premises:

1. Isaac Asimov wrote books on space

2. But He isn't from space

3. Shakespeare wrote on Italy.


In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Melissa Aves -
Shakespeare's plays were all set in Italy.
Most of Asimov's plays were set in outer space.
Shakespeare is Italian and Asimov is from outer space.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Aedan Masker -
Modus ponens: IF P then Q. P therefore Q
The dog will not go outside if it is raining. It is raining, therefore the dog will not go outside.

Modus tollens: If P then Q. Not Q, therefore not P.
The dog will not go outside if it is raining. The dog is outside, therefore it is not raining.

Reductio:
The Earth is flat. Flat surfaces have edges, so people must be falling off the edge of the Earth. No one has ever fallen over the edge of the Earth, so the Earth cannot be flat.



Shakespeare:
Reductio argument is being given.
P1: Writers set their works more often in the place they are from
P2: Shakespeare set almost half of his plays in Italy.
C1 (intermediate): Shakespeare is Italian.

Graham goes on to reduce this argument to absurd by
assuming P1) is true.
Gives his own P2) Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
C) So Asimov is a Martian? - Absurd conclusion so P1 must be false
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by liel Mashiach -
Modus Ponens:
Example:
If it's raining, then the streets will be wet.
It's raining.
Therefore, the streets are wet.

Modus Tollens:
Example:
If it's my car, then it's in the garage.
It's not in the garage.
Therefore, it's not my car.

Reductio ad Absurdum:
Example:
If everyone jumped off a cliff, then it would be safe.
It's not safe to jump off a cliff.
Therefore, not everyone jumping off a cliff would be safe.

For the argument provided by Graham Simpson:
Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian.
Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
Just because Asimov's novels are set in outer space doesn't mean he was Martian, implying that setting does not necessarily determine an author's nationality or identity.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Steven Requena -
Modus ponens
They will fail the test if they do not study
they did not study
they will fail the test
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Tiffany Jones -
Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian.

Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
Isaac Asimov's novels are mostly set in outer space.
The argument's structure aligns with modus tollens:

If Shakespeare was Italian (A), then almost half of his plays would be set in Italy (B).
Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy (B).
Therefore, Shakespeare was Italian (A).
This argument aims to refute the claim that Shakespeare's setting in Italy necessarily indicates his Italian nationality, by drawing an analogy with Isaac Asimov's novels set in outer space to show that setting does not determine the author's nationality or origin. Thus, it supports the conclusion that Shakespeare's setting in Italy does not definitively prove he was Italian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Corne Botha -
1. Modus Ponens: If it's raining, then the streets are wet. It's raining. Therefore, the streets are wet.
2. Modus Tollens: If the battery is dead, the car won't start. The car started. Therefore, the battery is not dead.
3. Reductio: All birds have feathers. A penguin is a bird. Therefore, a penguin has feathers.

Setting a significant portion of works in a certain location does not necessarily indicate the origin or nationality of the author
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Bridgett Pittman -
1. The ground is wet if it snows. The ground is wet. Therefore it is snowing (Not valid but you know.)
2. All teachers in the state of TN must pass a licensure. I have not taken/passed a licensure. Therefore, I am not a teacher in TN.
3. All cars are black. If all cars are black, and we encounter a white car, it contradicts the initial assumption that all cars have to be black. Therefore, the assumption that all cars are black leads to an absurdity.
Shakespeare argument
P1) Shakespeare was from Italy
P1 a.) Almost half of his plays were set in Italy.
P2) Almost all of Asimov's books were set in space.
C) therefore, Isaac Asimov Must be from space making him a Martian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Vinicius Amorim Vieira de Sa -

Patterns of argument

  1. modus ponens (P->Q P. Q.)

    If I study hard for the test, I will get an A grade. I studied a lot, so I got an A.

  2. modus tollens (P->Q ~Q. ~P.)

    If I eat a lot and don't exercise, I will become overweight. I'm not overweight, so I don't eat much, or I do exercise.

  3. reductio

    Every beautiful city has skyscrapers. Paris has banned skyscrapers, so Paris is an ugly city. (absurdum)

Argument about Shakespeare

Conclusion: it is not valid to say that Shakespeare was Italian just based on the premise that a large part of his plays take place in Italy.

  1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
  2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
  3. Asimov was a Martian (absurdum)
  4. Shakespeare was Italian. (invalid)
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Hudson Harper -
Modus Ponens: If you put in hours at a job(P) then you will get paid for the number of hours you worked(Q). I worked 40 hours at Walmart (P) so I got paid for those hours(Q)

Modus Tollens: If you put in hours at a job(P) then you will get paid for the number of hours you worked(Q). I did get paid (Q) which means I did not work(P)

Reductio: Stealing makes thief's happy. We should allow thief's to be happy. Allowing thief's to steal puts other citizens in danger. Therefore thief's are not allowed to steal.

Shakespeare
1.Almost half of Shakespeare's play are set in Italy
2.Shakespeare was an Italian
3.Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
4.Isaac Asimov is a Martian
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Marylin Abreu -
Modus ponens: If I exercise more, then I will be in better shape. I exercise five times a week, therefore I am in better shape.

Modus tollens: If the power is out, I cannot turn on the AC. I have turned on the AC. Therefore the power did not go out.

Reductio: I wear sneakers. Therefore, I love to run.

Shakespeare example:
-Main conclusion: Asimov is a martian
-Premises: Half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy; Shakespeare was Italian; Asimov's books are set in space.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Saanvi Kundu -
Modus Ponens: If it rains, the street gets wet, and it's raining, so the street is wet! Modus Tollens: If you're rich, you have a million dollars, but you don't have a million dollars, so you're not rich! Reductio Ad Absurdum: If Asimov's space novels make him a Martian, that's absurd, so Shakespeare's Italian settings don't make him Italian!

The argument's main conclusion is that Shakespeare wasn't Italian just because of his play settings. The premises are that play settings don't determine nationality, Asimov's space novels don't make him a Martian, and Shakespeare's Italian settings don't make him Italian. The argument uses reductio ad absurdum to show the absurdity of judging nationality by settings. It challenges the idea that Shakespeare was Italian just because of his play settings.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Cecily Acevedo -

 Modus Ponens: Iit rains, the ground will be wet. It is raining.Therefore, the ground is wet.

Modus Tollens: If she is a doctor, then she has a medical degree. She does not have a medical degree. Therefore, she is not a doctor.

Reductio ad Absurdum: Assume that all swans are white. I see a black swan.  Therefore, not all swans are white (the assumption is false).


Analysis of Graham Simpson's Argument

Shakespeare was not Italian.

Premises:  

1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.  

2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.  

3. Just because a significant portion of someone's work is set in a specific location or context does not mean that the author is from that location or context.  


Simpson uses an analogy to challenge the original claim by pointing out that just because Asimov's stories are set in outer space, it does not mean he was Martian. He implies that the same logical structure applies to the assertion about Shakespeare, thereby concluding that the setting of a play does not determine the author's nationality. 

This type of reasoning highlights flaws in the original argument by showing a lack of correlation between where a story is set and the identity of the author, effectively using reductio ad absurdum to argue against the claim of Shakespeare being Italian. 

In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Fantasia Wiggins -
-Modus Ponens:
If I am running then, I am sweating
I'm running
Therefore I am sweating

-Modus Tollens:
If it's cold ,then it's winter
It's not cold
Therefore it is not winter

Assumption: All pigs are purple
Reductio: If we were to encounter a black pig, and all pigs are purple.It contradicts the assumption that all pigs are purple. Therefore the assumption that all pigs are purple is absurd.

Graham Simpson Argument
P: Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy
P: Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
C: Shakespeare was an Italian
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by vanessa Ur -
Sure! Here are examples of the three important patterns of argument:

1. **Modus Ponens**:
- **Form**: If P, then Q. P is true. Therefore, Q is true.
- **Example**: If it is raining, then the ground will be wet. It is raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.

2. **Modus Tollens**:
- **Form**: If P, then Q. Not Q. Therefore, not P.
- **Example**: If it is raining, then the ground will be wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it is not raining.

3. **Reductio ad Absurdum**:
- **Form**: Assume P is true. This leads to a contradiction. Therefore, P is not true.
- **Example**: Assume that all humans are immortal. If all humans are immortal, then no human should die. However, humans do die. Therefore, not all humans are immortal.

**Analysis of Graham Simpson's Argument**:

- **Main Conclusion**: Shakespeare was not Italian.

- **Premises**:
1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
3. Asimov was not a Martian.

**Discussion**: Graham Simpson’s argument uses a reductio ad absurdum approach to challenge the claim that Shakespeare was Italian based on the setting of his plays. The idea is that just because many of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy, it doesn't logically follow that Shakespeare himself was Italian, just as the fact that Asimov's novels are set in outer space doesn't mean he was a Martian. This argument highlights that setting alone is not a sufficient indicator of an author's identity or nationality.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Dominique Vittorio -
1. Modus Ponens (Affirming the Antecedent):
- If it rains, then the ground will be wet.
- It is raining.
- Therefore, the ground will be wet.

2. Modus Tollens (Denying the Consequent):**
- If the car battery is dead, then the car won't start.
- The car started.
- Therefore, the car battery is not dead.

3. Reductio ad Absurdum (Reduction to Absurdity):**
- Assume that 2 + 2 equals 5.
- If 2 + 2 equals 5, then basic arithmetic is flawed.
- But basic arithmetic is not flawed (it is consistent and reliable).
- Therefore, the assumption that 2 + 2 equals 5 is absurd and false.

Analyzing the Argument from the Newspaper

Main Conclusion:
- The idea that Shakespeare was Italian because almost half of his plays are set in Italy is absurd.

Premises
1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
3. If the logic used to claim that Shakespeare was Italian because of the setting of his plays were valid, then Isaac Asimov would be a Martian because of the setting of his novels.
4. Isaac Asimov was not a Martian.
5. Therefore, the reasoning that Shakespeare was Italian based on the setting of his plays is flawed.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Muhammad Kamran -

1. Modus Ponens ExampleStructure:If P, then Q.P.Therefore, Q.Example:If it is snowing, then it must be cold outside.It is snowing.Therefore, it must be cold outside.2. Universal Affirmative ExampleStructure:Every F is G.X is F.Therefore, X is G.Example:Every student in the class is wearing a uniform.John is a student in the class.Therefore, John is wearing a uniform.3. Transitivity of Categories ExampleStructure:Every F is G.Every G is H.Therefore, every F is H.Example:Every cat is a mammal.Every mammal is an animal.Therefore, every cat is an animal.4. Contrapositive ExampleStructure:Every F is G.X is not G.Therefore, X is not F.Example:Every graduate has a degree.Alice does not have a degree.Therefore, Alice is not a graduate.

In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by JECEL MONTI-EL -
Forum Post: Analyzing Patterns of Argument and Evaluating an Argument

In logical reasoning and critical thinking, understanding common patterns of argument helps us analyze and evaluate the strength of various claims. Here, I’ll outline three important patterns of argument—modus ponens, modus tollens, and reductio ad absurdum—and then apply these concepts to a reader’s response in a newspaper about Shakespeare's nationality.

Patterns of Argument

Modus Ponens (Affirming the Antecedent):

Pattern: If P, then Q. P is true, therefore Q is true.
Example: If it is raining, then the ground will be wet. It is raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.
Explanation: This pattern involves affirming the antecedent (P) to conclude the consequent (Q).
Modus Tollens (Denying the Consequent):

Pattern: If P, then Q. Q is not true, therefore P is not true.
Example: If it is raining, then the ground will be wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it is not raining.
Explanation: This pattern involves denying the consequent (Q) to conclude that the antecedent (P) is not true.
Reductio ad Absurdum (Proof by Contradiction):

Pattern: Assume P is true, and show that this assumption leads to a contradiction. Therefore, P must be false.
Example: Assume that there are no even numbers. Then every number would be odd. But 2 is an even number, which contradicts the assumption. Therefore, there must be even numbers.
Explanation: This pattern involves showing that an assumption leads to an absurd or contradictory outcome, thus proving the assumption false.
Analyzing the Reader’s Argument

Argument: "So Shakespeare was an Italian, because almost half of his plays are set in Italy. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space – does that mean he was a Martian?" – Graham Simpson

Identifying the Main Conclusion and Premises:

Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not Italian.

Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.
Almost all of Isaac Asimov’s novels are set in outer space.
It does not follow that Asimov was a Martian based on the setting of his novels.
Pattern of Argument:

The argument presented by Graham Simpson is an example of Reductio ad Absurdum:

Assumption to be Tested: Shakespeare was Italian.
Application of Assumption: If Shakespeare were Italian just because his plays are set in Italy, then similar logic would mean Isaac Asimov was a Martian because his novels are set in outer space.
Contradiction/Absurdity: The idea that Asimov was a Martian based on the settings of his novels is absurd and clearly false.
Conclusion: Therefore, Shakespeare’s being Italian based on the settings of his plays is also absurd. Hence, Shakespeare was not Italian.
Discussion Thoughts:

Graham Simpson’s argument effectively uses reductio ad absurdum to challenge the claim that Shakespeare’s Italian settings prove his nationality. By drawing an analogy to Isaac Asimov’s works, Simpson highlights the flawed logic of assuming that the setting of literary works determines the author’s origin. This method of argumentation is a powerful tool for exposing weaknesses in reasoning by demonstrating that such assumptions lead to implausible or absurd conclusions.

In evaluating arguments, recognizing these patterns helps us understand the logical structure and validity of the claims being made. What are your thoughts on using reductio ad absurdum in this context? Have you encountered other arguments where this technique was particularly effective or where another pattern might have been more appropriate? Share your insights and experiences!

Responding to Other Students’ Posts

Student A’s Post: “I’ve always found modus ponens to be straightforward, but I struggle with recognizing when reductio ad absurdum is applied effectively.”

Response: Modus ponens is indeed a clear pattern for direct reasoning. Reductio ad absurdum can be more nuanced, as it involves showing contradictions to disprove an assumption. Have you considered analyzing arguments by looking for absurd or contradictory outcomes as a way to practice this technique?

Student B’s Post: “I often see people misuse modus tollens by misidentifying the antecedent and consequent. How can we avoid this?”

Response: Misidentifying parts of modus tollens can lead to incorrect conclusions. To avoid this, carefully ensure that the premise correctly identifies the relationship between antecedent and consequent. Double-checking the logical structure and verifying each step can help prevent errors.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jonathan Cuntapay -
1. Modus Ponens

Premise 1: If it is raining, then the ground will be wet.
Premise 2: It is raining.
Conclusion: Therefore, the ground is wet.
2. Modus Tollens

Premise 1: If she is a doctor, then she has a medical degree.
Premise 2: She does not have a medical degree.
Conclusion: Therefore, she is not a doctor.
3. Reductio ad Absurdum

Premise 1: Assume all swans are white.
Premise 2: A black swan has been observed.
Conclusion: Therefore, not all swans are white.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Eric Raska -
Modus ponens:
If computers are electronic, they require electricity. I have a computer therefore it requires electricity.
Modus tollens:
If computers require software updates, then my computer would be updating. My computer is not updating, therefore it is not a computer.
Reductio:
My computer can function while not being plugged in to the wall. Therefore I don't ever need to plug my computer into the wall.
Shakespeare:
Correlation does not equal causation. Because Shakespeare was from Italy, he wrote about his home. Just because Isaac Asimov wrote about outer space, does not mean he is from outer space.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jose Melendez -
Modus ponens:
- As soon as I get my driving license, I´ll buy my first car.
- I have bought my first car.
- I got my driving license

Modus tollens:
- Voting receipts are the only valid documents supporting voting results.
- The government distroyed the voting receipts
- Voting results are not validly supported.

Reductio:
- Assume this is a good gobernment who provides equal oportunities to all citizens. Providing equal oportunities to all citizens, involvess the government overseing all individuals to see whether they are being provided with oportunities somehow equal to everyone else. There are no such an oversee policies in place currently, so this government shouldn´t be called as good.

On Shakespeare:
p1: Assume Shakespeare is from Italy because half of his plays are set in Italy.
p2: Almost all of Isaac Asimov´s novels are set in outer space.
p3: Isaac Asimov cannot be from the space.
C: The fact that half of Shakespeare´s plays are set in Italy doesn´t follow the conclusion that he was from Italy.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Rachel Validum -

Modus Ponens

1. If P, then Q.

2. P.

3. Therefore, Q.

Example:

1. If it rains, then the ground will be wet.

2. It is raining.

3. Therefore, the ground is wet.


Modus Tollens

1. If P, then Q.

2. Not Q.

3. Therefore, not P.

Example:

1. If it is a dog, then it barks.

2. It does not bark.

3. Therefore, it is not a dog.


 Reductio ad Absurdum

1. Assume P is true.

2. If P leads to a contradiction (or an absurd conclusion), then P must be false.

3. Therefore, not P.

Example:

1. Assume that all swans are white.

2. If this is true, then the existence of a black swan contradicts it.

3. Therefore, not all swans are white.


---


Argument from a Reader about Shakespeare's Nationality


 Main Conclusion:

Shakespeare was not Italian.


 Premises:

1. Shakespeare's works contain numerous references to English history and culture.

2. There is no credible evidence that Shakespeare lived in Italy or was of Italian descent.

3. Most scholars agree that his plays reflect English society, suggesting he was deeply rooted in England.

In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Rae Ramsey -

Modus Ponens - if Florida is in the south of the country, then Floridians are southern. Florida is in the south of the country, therefore Floridians are southern. 

Modus Tollens - if the coffee is fresh, then it will be hot. The coffee is not hot, therefore the coffee is not fresh. 

Reductio - it cannot rain under the sea; otherwise, since the sea is an already a mass of water, rain would not fall through water. 

Main conclusuon:  Shakespeare’s heritage cannot be concluded just by the setting of his plays. 

Premises

1) Shakespeare is Italian because half his plays are set in Italy. 

2) Asimov’s novels are set in space, does that mean he’s a Martian? 

3)it’s absurd to assume someone’s heritage based on Their art. 

In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Ibtihaj Khan -
Modus Ponens:
If I wash my hair, my hair will be wet. I am washing my hair. Therefore, my hair is wet.

Modus Tollens:
If the fire alarm goes off, then there is a fire. There is no fire. Therefore, the fire alarm did not go off.

Assumption: All cats are black.
Reductio: If all cats are black, and we encounter a white cat, it contradicts the initial assumption that all cats must be black. Therefore, the assumption that all cats are black leads to an absurdity.

Conclusion: Shakespeare was not Italian.

Premisses:
- Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
- Drawing an analogy, Graham presents the case of Isaac Asimov, noting that almost all of Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
- The analogy questions the validity of the claim that setting works in a particular location implies the origin of the creator, suggesting that if we follow this logic, Isaac Asimov would be considered a Martian
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jhea galgo -
Modus Ponens (MP):
If A, then B
A
∴ B

Example:
If it rains, the streets will be wet.
It rains.
∴ The streets will be wet.


Modus Tollens (MT):
If A, then B
Not B
∴ Not A

Example:
If Shakespeare was Italian, most plays would be set in Italy.
Not most plays are set in Italy.
∴ Shakespeare was not Italian.


Reductio ad Absurdum (RA):
If A, then B (absurd)
A
∴ Not A

Example:
If Shakespeare was Italian solely due to settings, Asimov would be Martian due to settings.
Asimov was not Martian.
∴ Shakespeare's nationality isn't determined by settings.


Now, let's analyze Graham Simpson's argument:


Main Conclusion:
Shakespeare was not Italian.


Premises:

1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
3. It's absurd to conclude Asimov was a Martian based on settings.
4. (Implicit) If Shakespeare's nationality were determined by settings, it would be similarly absurd.


Graham Simpson uses Reductio ad Absurdum to challenge the article's claim, highlighting the flawed assumption that settings determine nationality.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by DANIEL BACH PHAN -
Modus Ponens:
If I go on a date, I will have to dress up. I'm going on a date. Therefore, I am dressed up.

Modus Tollens:
If you buy anything, then there is a charge. There is no charge. Therefore, you didn't buy anything.

Andrea is having last stage cancer, so she must die the next 3 months.
Not necessarily, if medications and doctors could save her, she could survive

Shakespeare
Primary Findings: Shakespeare was not from Italy
P1 - Shakespeare was from Italy
P1 sub - Almost half of his plays were set in Italy
P2 Parallel to P1 - Almost all of Asimovs books were set in space
P2 Conclusion - Therefore, Isaac Asinov must be from space ?? If we follow this logic, Isaac Asimov would be considered a Martian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by umarone85 Blanding -
Modus Ponens:

The car is moving the wheels are turning, the wheels are not turning so the car is not moving.

Modus tollens:

Josh has one cup of milk, if you do not find one cup of milk then Josh has no milk.


In the argument that the car can only move if the wheels are turning we see that it may or may not be accurate. A car can certainly move without it's wheels moving like being towed on a trailer. The truth of a premises is conditional to the circumstance underlining the argument.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Odile Segall -
Modus Ponens:
If it is sunny, I will wear sunglasses.
It is sunny.
Therefore, I will wear sunglasses.

Modus Tollens:
If I overslept, I would be late for work.
I was not late for work.
Therefore, I did not oversleep.

Reductio
Assume that texting while driving is completely safe.
If that were true, there would be no accidents caused by distracted drivers.
But many accidents are caused by texting while driving.
Therefore, texting while driving is not completely safe.
his argument uses Reductio ad Absurdum:

Assumption: If Shakespeare's plays being set in Italy means he was Italian, then Asimov's novels being set in space would mean he was Martian.
Absurd Result: Asimov was not Martian, so the assumption must be false.
Conclusion: Shakespeare was not Italian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Nancy Marie Foster -
modus ponens

Sichuan cuisine is spicy
This dish is spicy
Therefore, it is a Sichuanese dish

modus tollens

If a student fails the final exam, they fail the course. Therefore, every student that failed the course had a failing grade on the final exam.

reductio

Birds can fly
A kiwi is a bird
All kiwis can fly
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jannel Jay Chow -
Modus Ponens: If it rains, the ground will be wet. It is raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.
Modus Tollens: If it rains, the ground will be wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it is not raining.
Reductio ad Absurdum: If Shakespeare was Italian because his plays are set in Italy, Asimov must be Martian because his novels are set in space.

Isaac Asimov being a Martian is an absurd conclusion, so Shakespeare being Italian is equally absurd.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jessica Blackburn -
Here are examples of three important patterns of argument:

Modus Ponens:
1. If it rains, then the ground will be wet.
2. It is raining.
3. Therefore, the ground is wet.

Modus Tollens:
1. If John is a bachelor, then he is unmarried.
2. John is married.
3. Therefore, John is not a bachelor.

Reductio ad Absurdum (Reductio):
1. Assume the Earth is flat.
2. If the Earth is flat, then ships would fall off the edge.
3. Ships do not fall off the edge of the Earth.
4. Therefore, the Earth is not flat.

In the given argument by Graham Simpson:

1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
3. If a significant number of an author's works are set in a specific place, then the author must be from that place. (Implicit premise)
4. Therefore, Shakespeare was an Italian, and Isaac Asimov was a Martian.

The main conclusion of the argument is that claiming Shakespeare to be Italian based on the settings of his plays is as absurd as claiming Isaac Asimov to be a Martian based on the settings of his novels. The argument implies that the location in which an author sets their work does not necessarily indicate their place of origin.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Mehak Pal -
The three important patterns of argument:

1.Modus Ponens:
If it rains, the ground will be wet.
It is raining.
Conclusion: Therefore, the ground is wet.

2. Modus Tollens:
If the car is out of gas, it will not start.
The car started.
Conclusion: Therefore, the car is not out of gas.

3. Reductio ad Absurdum:
Assume that all swans are white.
There exists a black swan.
Conclusion: Therefore, the assumption that all swans are white is false.

Now, the argument made by Graham Simpson in response to the claim that Shakespeare was Italian, the main conclusion of his argument is that Shakespeare was not Italian.

The premises supporting this conclusion are:
1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
3. If having works set in a location implies the author is from that location, then Asimov would be a Martian.

Simpson uses this comparison to argue that just because Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy does not mean he was Italian, highlighting the flaw in the original claim.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Salvador de Jesus Farfan Sanchez -
Modus ponens:
All humans poop.
Miss Universe is a human.
Therefore, Miss Universe also poops.

Modus tollens:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
It is not the case that Goofy is probably a duck.
Then Goofy does not look like a duck, walk like a duck, or quack like a duck.

Reductio ad absurdum:
What the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.
Napoleon Hill
If it were easy everyone would do it.
Anthony Quinn
Obviously, not everybody is doing it, so not so sure about Napoleon Hill.


Graham Simpson claim is that it is absurd thinking that Shakespeare was Italian. It would be like saying

An author's birthplace is evidenced by the settings of the stories in his/her books.

This statement immediately discards stories about outer space.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Sarath Chandra Veerla -
This is a good example of how to use reasoning patterns to critique an argument. In this case, the reader cleverly uses a reductio ad absurdum to highlight the flaw in the original argument by showing the logical absurdity of its reasoning.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Krish Patro -
Modus Ponens:
All paper is thin.
Bob is holding paper.
Therefore, Bob is holding something thin.

Modus Tollens:
If a computer is on, then there is light coming from the screen.
There is no light coming from the screen.
As such, the computer is not on.

Reductio:
Assume squares are not parallelograms.
Opposite sides of a square are parallel.
Due to this, squares are parallelograms.

Graham Simpson's Argument:
Conclusion: Shakespeare was not Italian.
Premises:
(1) Half of his plays are set in Italy.
(2) Shakespeare was Italian. (from 1)
(3) Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
(4) He was a Martian. (Contradiction from 3)
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Katerina Lewis-Archer -
1. Modus Ponens:
If it rains, the ground will be wet. It rains.Therefore, the ground is wet.

2. Modus Tollens:
If the car starts, the engine is working. The engine is not working.Therefore, the car will not start.

3. Reductio ad Absurdum:
Suppose that the earth is flat.
If the earth is flat, then ships sailing away would never disappear from view hull-first, as they do when moving over a curved surface.
But ships do disappear hull-first, which contradicts the assumption of a flat earth.
Therefore, the earth cannot be flat.

4. Argument Analysis:
The argument implies that the claim "Shakespeare was Italian because many of his plays are set in Italy" is invalid.
The letter writer effectively demonstrates the flaw in the reasoning behind the claim about Shakespeare’s nationality by pointing out its logical inconsistency. It cleverly uses an exaggerated but parallel example to make its point. However, the letter doesn't directly address other possible evidence for the claim, so while it refutes one argument, it doesn't wholly disprove the conclusion. This approach encourages critical thinking about how evidence is used to support claims.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Desi O -
Modus Ponens- If it gets really late tonight we will get take out. It got really late tonight. We will get take out.

Modus Tollens- If my cat hears the door open she will run and hide. My cat hasn't run away to hide, so the door must not have been opened.

Reductio- Assume that everyone is always right. If someone says "I am wrong" they are also right. This is a contradiction, you can't be right and wrong at the same time, so everyone isn't always right.

Premise 1- Shakespeare was Italian because most of his plays are set in Italy
Premise 2- Isaac Asimov's novels are mostly all set in outer space
Conclusion- Isaac Asimov must be from outer space
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Rebecca Klein -
Modus ponens: If you get the promotion, your salary will increase. You got the promotion. Therefore, your salary will increase.

Modus tollens: If the house burns down, you will lose all of your belongings. You haven't lost all of your belongings, so the house hasn't burned down.

Reductio: Assume that everything you can read on the internet is true. There are contradictory "facts" on the internet that would prove each other false. Therefore, not everything you can read on the internet can be true.


This is a cleverly disguised example of reductio ad absurdum. The writer's main conclusion is that Shakespeare isn't Italian just because his plays were set there.

1. Assume that if someone writes things set in a specific place, they must be from that place.
2. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays were set in Italy.
3. Therefore, Shakespeare must have been Italian. (from 1, 2)
4. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels were set in outer space.
5. By this logic, Isaac Asimov must have been a Martian - which is absurd.
6. Therefore, it's ridiculous to say that Shakespeare was Italian simply because he wrote plays set in Italy.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Etnise Augustin -
Modus Ponens
If I do not do my homework, I will not receive extra credit. I did not do my homework. Therefore I did not receive extra credit.

Modus Tollens
If it is the weekend, then I do not go into work. I went to work. Therefore it is not the weekend.

Reductio
If we lived in a lawless society, then actions like rape and murder would be allowed, which harms others, therefore we need laws in place to protect the people.


Premise 1. Almost half Shakespeare plays are set in Italy.
Premise 2.Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
Conclusion So Shakespeare was an Italian, and Isaac Asimov was a Martian
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Ademide Abdullah -
Modus ponens: If Nigeria always have a bad economy after a change of government, any country that have a bad economy is a bad country, there's a change of government in Nigeria, Nigeria is a bad country



Modus tollens: All Mamma possess hair, lizard doesn't possess hair, therefore lizard is not a mammal.


Induction: Laurence likes light complexion lady, Lidia is light in complexion, Laurence likes Lidia.




Premises
1. Half of Shakespeare plays are set in Italian
Conclusion from premise 1
Shakespeare is an Italian
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Leah Abernathy -
Conclusion - The author is from the place where most of his plays are set.

Premise 1. Shakespeare was an Italian
Premise 2. His plays are set in Italy
Premise 3. Isaac Asimov's plays are set in outer space
In reply to Leah Abernathy

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Sami Al Majanini -
I see where you’re coming from with your breakdown of the argument, but I think there might be some room for clarification. While your conclusion—“The author is from the place where most of his plays are set”—represents the reasoning Simpson is critiquing, it doesn’t seem to be the main conclusion of the argument itself. Instead, the main conclusion is that Shakespeare was not Italian.

Also, for the premises, I think the third one might need a slight adjustment. Isaac Asimov didn’t write plays but novels, and Simpson uses this example to point out the flaw in assuming an author’s origin is tied to their works’ settings.

What do you think about reframing the premises like this?

Almost half of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.
Therefore, the claim is made that Shakespeare must be Italian.
However, almost all of Isaac Asimov’s novels are set in outer space, yet he is not a Martian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Sami Al Majanini -
Examples of Three Important Patterns of Argument
Modus Ponens (If P, then Q. P. Therefore, Q):

If it rains, then the ground will be wet.
It is raining.
Therefore, the ground is wet.
Modus Tollens (If P, then Q. Not Q. Therefore, not P):

If the car has fuel, then it will start.
The car did not start.
Therefore, the car does not have fuel.
Reductio ad Absurdum (Assume P. If P leads to a contradiction, then not P):

Assume that 2 is not a prime number.
If 2 is not prime, then it must be divisible by another whole number besides 1 and itself.
No such number exists.
Therefore, the assumption that 2 is not a prime number is false, and 2 is a prime number.
Analysis of Graham Simpson’s Argument
Main Conclusion:
The argument's conclusion is that Shakespeare was not Italian, despite the claim that many of his plays are set in Italy.

Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
The setting of a writer’s works does not determine their nationality or origin (implied premise).
Isaac Asimov was not a Martian.
Reasoning:
Simpson uses reductio ad absurdum to refute the claim that Shakespeare was Italian. He assumes that if the setting of an author's works indicates their origin, then Isaac Asimov, whose novels are set in outer space, must be a Martian. Since this is absurd, the claim about Shakespeare being Italian based on his plays' settings is also unreasonable.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Toya Roberts -
Modus Ponens: if it rains, the ground is wet. It is raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.
Modus Tollens: If the car is out of fuel, it will not start. The car starts. Therefore, the car is not out of fuel.
Reductio: Suppose there are no rules in society. If there are no rules, chaos would reign, and society would collapse. Society has not collapsed. Therefore, there are rules in society.

Shakespeare was not Italian

Premises
1. Almost half of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.
2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov’s novels are set in outer space.
3. Isaac Asimov was not a Martian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Roselix Perez -
Modus Ponens: If it rains, the street gets wet. It is raining, so the street is wet!

Modus Tollens: If you're rich, you have a million dollars, but you don't have a million dollars, so you're not rich!

Reductio Ad Absurdum: If Asimov's space novels make him a Martian, that would be absurd; therefore, Shakespeare's Italian settings do not make him Italian!

The main conclusion of the argument is that Shakespeare cannot be considered Italian solely based on his play settings. The premises state that play settings do not determine nationality, Asimov's space novels do not make him a Martian, and Shakespeare's Italian settings do not indicate that he is Italian. This argument employs reductio ad absurdum to illustrate the absurdity of judging nationality based on settings alone, challenging the idea that Shakespeare was Italian just because of the locations featured in his plays.
In reply to Roselix Perez

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Dylan Lortie -
Hello Roselix,

This was a great post and each fallacy was talked about perfectly, I enjoyed reading about your thoughts on the Shakespeare argument, I would agree that just because plays were performed somewhere does not mean that person would be from there.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jevon Searight -
make it a bit less formal please
Sure thing! Here’s a more relaxed version:

Patterns of Argument
Modus Ponens:

If it rains, the ground will be wet.

It is raining.

So, the ground is wet.

Modus Tollens:

If it rains, the ground will be wet.

The ground is not wet.

So, it’s not raining.

Reductio ad Absurdum:

Assume 2 + 2 = 5.

If 2 + 2 = 5, then 4 = 5.

That’s a contradiction.

So, 2 + 2 ≠ 5.

Graham Simpson's Argument
Main Conclusion: Shakespeare wasn’t necessarily Italian just because many of his plays are set in Italy.

Premises:

Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.

Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.

Isaac Asimov wasn’t a Martian.

Simpson uses reductio ad absurdum to show the flaw in thinking that where an author sets their stories determines their nationality. By comparing Shakespeare to Asimov, he points out how silly it is to conclude that an author must be from the place where their works are set.
In reply to Jevon Searight

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Pamela Kuczkowski -
Hello Jevon,
I agree with your conclusion in the Graham Simpson argument. Writing plays set in Italy does not mean that the author certainly is from Italy, just as writing stories set in outer space does not mean that the author is certainly a Martian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Dylan Lortie -
Modus Ponens -
P1 - If you play golf you need a golf ball.
P2 - I am playing golf.
C - Therefore I need a golf ball.

Modus Tollens -
P1 - If it rains then clouds are in the sky.
P2 - The sky is clear today.
C - Therefore there it is not raining.

Reductio -
If everyone went to Starbucks and got a coffee then no one would be tired.

Shakespeare's Argument -

P1 - If you perform in Italy you are Italian.
P2 - Shakespeare performed in Italy.
C - Shakespeare must have been Italian.

In this line Graham Simpson assumes that just because one thing occurs the other must happen. This is not always the case.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by yamilkie forchue -
just because shakespeare has half of his plays set in Italy does not mean he was Italian . Shakespeare was born in United Kingdom
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Alexander Mendez -
Reductio ad Absurdum:
Assume cats can fly. If that were true, we’d see cats flying everywhere, which is clearly absurd. Therefore, cats cannot fly. The main conclusion is that Shakespeare was not Italian.

Almost half of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.
Using the same logic, we’d have to say Asimov was a Martian, which is ridiculous.
Simpson uses reductio ad absurdum to show the original claim is flawed. What do you think of his reasoning?
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by MUHAMMAD TANVEER -
Examples of argument patterns:

Modus Ponens: If it rains, the ground will be wet. It is raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.

Modus Tollens: If the lights are on, someone is home. The lights are not on. Therefore, no one is home.

Reductio ad Absurdum: If all numbers are even, then 3 would also be even, which is absurd. Therefore, not all numbers are even.


Analysis of the newspaper argument:
The main conclusion is that the claim "Shakespeare was Italian" is not supported by the fact that many of his plays are set in Italy. The premises are:

1. Almost half of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.


2. By that logic, Isaac Asimov’s novels being set in outer space would imply he was a Martian, which is absurd.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Marquita Brooks -
modus ponenus -If it is raining, we are training. It is raining; therefore, we are training.
modus tollens- If it snows it must be 32 degrees outside. It is not 32 degrees outside. Therefore, we will not get snow.
Reductio- Prison systems are meant to rehabilitate people. However, when people go to prison, they either come out worse than they were when they went in. Or they are no longer able to work a decent job therefore they commit crimes to make a living. This is a contradiction so the prison system must not me meant for rehabilitation.

"So Shakespeare was an Italian, because almost half of his plays are set in Italy. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space – does that mean he was a Martian?" – Graham Simpson
The argument is comparing the belief that Shakespeare being Italian due to half his plays being set in Italy to Asimov being Martian due to almost all his plays being set in outer space. They are making the argument that you cannot assume where someone is from based on the location of the plays they write.
In reply to Marquita Brooks

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Pamela Kuczkowski -
Hello Marquita,
I had agreed with you on the conclusion of the argument by Graham Simpson, but now I am not so sure. Now I believe that the conclusion is just that Shakespeare MAY not be Italian.

Pam Kuczkowski
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Pamela Kuczkowski -
Modus ponens: If I am going to the party, then I will be wearing my pink dress. I am going to the party, so I will be wearing my pink dress.

Modus tollens: If a tree is a koosa dogwood, it will produce white flowers. This tree does not produce white flowers. Therefore, it is not a koosa dogwood.

Reductio: Because it is a bird, an ostrich flies. Penguins are birds, so they must fly.

"So Shakespeare was an Italian, because almost half of his plays are set in Italy. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space-does that mean he was a Martian?" - Graham Simpson
The above argument by Graham Simpson uses the reductio ad absurdum technique to conclude that Shakespeare is not necessarily an Italian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Amanpreet Singh -
Modus Ponens: If it rains, the ground will be wet. It rains. Therefore, the ground is wet.
Modus Tollens: If it rains, the ground will be wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it did not rain.
Reductio: Assume Shakespeare was Italian because his plays are set in Italy. Then, by that logic, Asimov would be Martian since his novels are set in space, which is absurd
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Tom Pine -
1. (ponens) All woolen articles of clothing come from sheep. The man's sweater is made of wool. Therefore, the sweater is a product of sheep.
2. (tollens) Foods that contain no animal products are vegan. A ham sandwich contains meat. Therefore, a ham sandwich is not vegan.
3. (reductio) A man claims that all college dropouts are losers. Another man says that if all dropouts are losers, why are Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates counted among them.


The argument presented about Shakespeare seems to be an application of reductio ad absurdum, with the conclusion that Shakespeare was in fact not Italian, the premise being that other authors like Asimov write stories about places they've never been to all the time.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by rafsha hossain -
Here are examples of three important patterns of argument:

Modus Ponens (Affirming the Antecedent):

Example: If it rains, the ground will be wet. It is raining. Therefore, the ground is wet.
This argument follows the pattern of affirming that the antecedent (if clause) is true, which leads to the consequent (then clause) being true.
Modus Tollens (Denying the Consequent):

Example: If it rains, the ground will be wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it did not rain.
This argument denies the consequent, leading to the conclusion that the antecedent is false.
Reductio ad Absurdum (Reduction to Absurdity):

Example: If all humans are immortal, then I am immortal. But I am not immortal. Therefore, not all humans are immortal.
This pattern involves assuming the opposite of the conclusion and showing that it leads to an absurd or contradictory result.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Cheryl Douglas -
Here are examples of three important patterns of argument:

Modus Ponens (Affirming the Antecedent):

Example: If the sky is dark it will rain. The sky is dark therefore its raining.

Modus Tollens (Denying the Consequent):

Example: If it rains, the ground will be wet. The ground is not wet. Therefore, it did not rain.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Mikkie Gumatay -
Here are examples of three important patterns of argument:

Modus Ponens (If P, then Q. P is true, so Q must be true.)

If a person studies regularly, they will pass the exam.
John studies regularly.
Therefore, John will pass the exam.
Modus Tollens (If P, then Q. Q is false, so P must also be false.)

If it is raining, the ground will be wet.
The ground is not wet.
Therefore, it is not raining.
Reductio ad Absurdum (Assume P, show that it leads to a contradiction, so P must be false.)

Suppose that 1 = 2.
If 1 = 2, then adding 1 to both sides gives 2 = 3.
But 2 ≠ 3, which is a contradiction.
Therefore, 1 ≠ 2, proving the assumption false.



Analysis of Graham Simpson's Argument:
Main Conclusion: The idea that Shakespeare was Italian is flawed.

Premises:

The claim that Shakespeare was Italian is based on the fact that almost half of his plays are set in Italy.
However, almost all of Isaac Asimov’s novels are set in outer space.
If we accept the reasoning that Shakespeare’s settings determine his nationality, then we would also have to conclude that Asimov was a Martian.
But Asimov was not a Martian, so this reasoning is faulty.
Simpson's argument follows a reductio ad absurdum structure, showing that the logic used to claim Shakespeare was Italian leads to an absurd conclusion, so it must be false.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by ABUBAKAR BAH -
Examples of Important Argument Patterns
1. Modus Ponens (If P, then Q. P is true, therefore Q is true):

If it rains, the ground will be wet.
It is raining.
Therefore, the ground is wet.
2. Modus Tollens (If P, then Q. Q is false, therefore P is false):

If Shakespeare were Italian, he would have written about Italian culture with native fluency.
He made several cultural errors in his Italian settings.
Therefore, Shakespeare was not Italian.
3. Reductio ad Absurdum (Assume the opposite to show it leads to an absurd conclusion):

Assume Shakespeare was Italian because many of his plays are set in Italy.
By this logic, Asimov must be Martian because many of his stories are set in space.
This is absurd, so the original claim that Shakespeare was Italian is flawed.

Argument Analysis
Main Conclusion:

Shakespeare was not Italian.
Premises:

The argument for Shakespeare's Italian heritage relies on the fact that many of his plays are set in Italy.
If this reasoning were valid, then Asimov, who wrote many novels set in space, would also be Martian.
Since the latter is obviously false, the former claim about Shakespeare is also unsupported.
Logical Technique Used:

The argument employs reductio ad absurdum by showing that the logic used to claim Shakespeare's Italian origins leads to an absurd conclusion when applied to Asimov.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Hima Varshini Nallala -
Modus Ponens (If P, then Q. P is true, so Q must be true.)

If it rains, the ground will be wet.
It is raining.
Therefore, the ground is wet.

Modus Tollens (If P, then Q. Q is false, so P must be false.)

If a book is a bestseller, it must be well-known.
This book is not well-known.
Therefore, it is not a bestseller.

Reductio ad Absurdum

Suppose all students should get A's just for trying.
Then effort, not knowledge, would determine grades.
This means even incorrect answers would deserve A’s, making grades meaningless.
Therefore, not all students should get A’s just for trying.

Main Conclusion: Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian just because many of his plays are set in Italy.

Premises:
Almost half of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.
Almost all of Isaac Asimov’s novels are set in outer space.
Asimov was not a Martian.
Setting a story in a place does not mean the author is from that place.
This argument uses Reductio ad Absurdum by assuming that if Shakespeare were Italian because of his settings, then Asimov should be a Martian, which is clearly absurd. Therefore, the original claim is unreasonable.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Dhumal Suraj Nandkumar -
1. Modus Ponens (Affirming the Antecedent):
This is a valid argument form that follows the structure:

Example:

If it rains, the ground will be wet.
It is raining.
Therefore, the ground is wet.

2. Modus Tollens (Denying the Consequent):
This is a valid argument form that follows the structure:

Example:

If I have a car, I can drive to the store.
I can't drive to the store.
Therefore, I don’t have a car.
3. Reductio ad Absurdum (Reduction to Absurdity):
This is a form of argument where one assumes a claim is true, and then shows that this assumption leads to an absurd or contradictory conclusion, thereby refuting the original claim.

Example:

Assume that all birds can swim.
Penguins are birds and cannot swim in the way other birds can.
Therefore, the assumption that all birds can swim must be false.
Now, let’s analyze the argument in the reader's response about Shakespeare:

Argument: "So Shakespeare was an Italian, because almost half of his plays are set in Italy. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space – does that mean he was a Martian?" – Graham Simpson

Main Conclusion:
The main conclusion of the argument is that Shakespeare was not necessarily Italian just because his plays are set in Italy.

Premises:
Premise 1: Almost half of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.
Premise 2: Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
Premise 3: The fact that Asimov’s novels are set in outer space doesn’t imply that Asimov was a Martian.
Argument Analysis:
Graham Simpson is arguing against the claim that Shakespeare was Italian based on the fact that many of his plays are set in Italy. The argument follows the form of reductio ad absurdum. The reasoning is as follows:

If we accept the idea that Shakespeare must be Italian just because his plays are set in Italy, then by the same logic, we would have to accept that Isaac Asimov is a Martian because his novels are set in outer space.
This is clearly absurd (hence the reductio), so the premise that Shakespeare’s plays being set in Italy implies he was Italian is flawed.
By showing the absurdity of applying the same logic to Asimov, the author is refuting the idea that the setting of Shakespeare’s plays can determine his nationality.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by mallory stamper -
Modus ponens: If Taco Bell is closed, I won't eat. Taco Bell was closed, so I didn't eat.
Modus tollens: If the shrimp are already peeled, I will eat them. The shrimp were not already peeled, so I did not eat them.
Reductio: Money does not buy happiness. If money bought happiness, then all rich people would be happy, however the is evidence that many of the richest people are unhappy on a personal level. Therefore, the statement that money buys happiness cannot be true.

The arguments main conclusion is that the statement that Shakespeare being Italian is absurd. The argument's premises include the fact that Shakespeare was Italian based off the knowledge that most of his plays are set in Italy. Likewise, the assumption that Asimov is a Martian is based solely off the fact that many of his movies are set in outer space. The argument is saying that theater setting does not determine nationality of a person because if it did Asimov would be a Martian and that cannot be true.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Rheselyn Bancolita -
Modus Ponens: If it rains, the ground will be wet. It is raining, so the ground is wet.

Modus Tollens: If you are a doctor, you have a medical degree. You don’t have a medical degree, so you are not a doctor.

Reductio ad Absurdum: If writing about Italy makes Shakespeare Italian, then writing about space should make Isaac Asimov a Martian. Since Asimov is not a Martian, Shakespeare is not Italian.
In reply to Rheselyn Bancolita

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Samantha Tomlinson -
I liked your second example because of the use of "medical" in the statement. Doctors of all kinds have degrees unrelated to medicine.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Zach Stevens -
If today is Monday then tomorrow is Tuesday
Today is Monday
So tomorrow is Tuesday

---

If today is Monday then tomorrow is Tuesday
Tomorrow is not Tuesday
So today is not Monday

---

If everyone strictly followed the rule that kindness is always the best policy, then no one would ever say anything that might upset someone. However, sometimes the truth is painful but necessary for growth and understanding. If no one ever spoke hard truths, people would remain ignorant of important realities. Ignorance can lead to misunderstandings and conflict. Conflict is unkind. Therefore, the rule that kindness is always the best policy leads to unkindness, contradicting itself.

---

Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
Isaac Asimov wasn't a martian.
So, just because almost half of Shakespeare's plays were set in Italy, does not make him Italian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Mads Toma -

Modus Ponens

1: it rains, the ground gets wet.

2: It is raining.

3: Therefore, the ground is wet.


Modus Tollens

1: If the alarm is set, it will ring.

2: The alarm did not ring.

3: Therefore, it was not set.

Reductio

1: Assume all social media is bad.

2:Then all forms of online communication must be harmful.

3: But educational platforms use social media effectively.

4: Therefore, not all social media is bad.


Shakespeare Argument


1. Many Shakespeare plays are set in Italy.

2. Most Asimov novels are set in space.

3. That doesn’t mean Asimov was a Martian.

4. Therefore, setting doesn’t determine nationality.

Conclusion: The claim that Shakespeare was Italian is flawed.


Type of argument

Reductio ad Absurdum—the reasoning leads to an absurd conclusion, proving it false.






In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jessica Lambert -
If someone can not process glucose then they have diabetes. Jenna can not process glucose. She has diabetes.

If someone can not process glucose then they have diabetes. John can process glucose. John does not have diabetes.

The Earth cannot be flat. If it were, we would hear stories of ships falling off the edge.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by NIJIN S S -
Modus Ponens:
All thumbs are fingers, bill has two thumbs. who has at least two fingers? that guyyyy (bill)

Modus tollens:
if Beth stole 100K then there would be at least 100K in her off shore bank account. There is not at least 100K in her off shore bank account. therefore, she couldn't have stolen the money
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by D. Tracy Design Studios -
Main Conclusion:
We should reject the claim that Shakespeare was Italian.

Premises:
The article’s reasoning is that Shakespeare must have been Italian because nearly half of his plays are set in Italy.

By analogy, Isaac Asimov wrote most of his novels about outer space, yet no one would conclude he was a Martian.

From these points, the reader implies that setting alone does not determine an author’s nationality, thus undermining the claim that Shakespeare was Italian.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Terence Drew -
1. All cats are evil. 2. Bob is a cat
C. Bob is evil

1. All cats are evil 2. Bob is not a cat
C Bob is not evil

1. All cats are evil 2. Bob is a cat
Observe: Bob is the perfect affectionate pet
C. Being the perfect affectionate pet is evil.

1. Shakespeare wrote a lot about Italy
2. Unstated: If an author writes a lot about a place, he is from that place.
3. Shakespeare is from Italy

Reductio:
1. Asimove wrote about extra terrestrial space
2. Unstated: If an author writes a lot about a place, he is from that place.
3. Asimov is an extra terrrestrial.
In reply to First post

Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by D Sai Shashank HSC -
Modus ponens: If it rains, the ground gets wet; it’s raining, so the ground is wet.
Modus tollens: If the store is open, the lights are on; the lights are off, so the store is not open.
Reductio: If no one worked, society would collapse, so the idea of no one working is absurd.

In the Shakespeare argument, the main conclusion is that Shakespeare was not Italian, and the premises are that many of his plays are set in Italy, but using that logic, Asimov would be a Martian since most of his books are set in space, which shows the claim is unreasonable.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Peter Lake -
1. Modus ponens- If I'm eating rice then it means I am really hungry, I am eating rice, therefore I am really hungry.
2. Modus tollens- If I am eating rice then it means I am really hungry, I am not eating rice, therefore I am not really hungry.
3.Reductio- Atheism says God doesn't exist because there's so much evil in the world. atheism lack the foundation to call something evil without having a moral standard that is objectively true and transcends us which is God. Therefore to call something evil would mean God exists.

Conclusion: This is a reductio which shows the absurdity of the claim Shakespeare was Italian because of the setting of his plays.

Premises: He used an analogy to show the absurdity of the claim. This is also commits genetic fallacy which judges a thing or a person's origin instead of its merits.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Samantha Tomlinson -
modus ponens:
Every character from New York on tv is abrasive, so every person from New York is abrasive.
p c
modus tollens:
Sixteen is the age to get a driver's license. I do not have a driver's license, therefore I am not sixteen.
p p c

reductio:
You should do what you want with your time, it will make you happy. If you put off undesirable things, negative effects
p p p
will happen. If you do what you want with your time, negative effects will happen and you will not be happy.
p p c

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
-article-
p1 Shakespear is Italian because over half of his plays are set in Italy
P2 Isaac Asimov is a Martian because his novels are almost all about outer space

The conclusion is that just because an author writes about a place often, does not prove the chosen setting to be the person's place of origin.

The argument made by Graham Simpson is valid because he proves the absurd invalidity of the statement about Shakespeare by comparing it with Martians that are absurd.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by B B -
In this discussion, Graham Simpson argues against the claim that Shakespeare was Italian based on the fact that many of his plays are set in Italy. He uses a reductio ad absurdum approach, comparing it to Isaac Asimov being a Martian just because his novels are set in outer space. Simpson’s conclusion is that the setting of a work does not determine the creator’s origin, showing that Shakespeare's plays being set in Italy doesn’t mean he was Italian.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by maddie daynes -
1. Modus Ponens
Structure:
If P, then Q.
P.
Therefore, Q.

Example:
If it is raining, then the ground will be wet.
It is raining.
Therefore, the ground is wet.

2. Modus Tollens
Structure:
If P, then Q.
Not Q.
Therefore, not P.

Example:
If the light is on, then the room is bright.
The room is not bright.
Therefore, the light is not on.

3. Reductio ad Absurdum
Structure:
Assume that P is true.
If assuming P leads to a contradiction (or absurdity),
Then P must be false.

Example:
Assume that there are no limits on speed.
If there are no limits on speed, then cars can travel infinitely fast.
This would lead to accidents with no consequences.
Thus, there must be limits on speed.


Argument Analysis from Reader's Letter

Argument:
"So Shakespeare was an Italian, because almost half of his plays are set in Italy. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space – does that mean he was a Martian?" – Graham Simpson

Main Conclusion
Shakespeare was not an Italian.

Premises
1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.
2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.
3. If setting a work in a particular place implies that the author is from that place, then since Asimov's novels are set in outer space, it would imply that he was a Martian.
4. The implication that Asimov was a Martian (based on the settings of his novels) is absurd or false.

By emphasizing the absurdity of the claim about Asimov, the argument suggests that Shakespeare's plays being set in Italy does not provide sufficient evidence for the conclusion that he was Italian.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Shaquana Brown-Beatty -
Modus Ponens:
If Ibn is a Muslim, She should pray the require 5 daily prayers. Ibn is a muslim. Therefore he should pray all 5 daily prayers.

Modus Tollens:
If I am pregnant, I will have a baby soon. I am not pregnant, So therefore I will not be having a baby.

Reductio:
If everyone were to be perfect in every aspect of life. There would be no space for growth. No one is perfect. Therefore we all have room for growth.

1. Shakespeare was an Italian
2. Almost half of his plays are set in Italy
1. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space
2. does that mean he was a martian?
Home is where the heart is.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Jacob Johnson -
Modus Ponens:
If it is raining (P), then the ground is wet (Q). It is raining (P), therefore, the ground is wet (Q).
Modus Tollens:
If it is raining (P), then the ground is wet (Q). The ground is not wet (not Q), therefore, it is not raining (not P).
Reductio ad Absurdum:
To prove that a statement is false, we assume it to be true and derive a contradiction. For example, if we assume that all swans are black and then find a white swan, we have proven that the original statement is false.
The main conclusion of Graham Simpson's argument is that the claim that Shakespeare was Italian, based on the location of his plays, is flawed and likely false. He is essentially using an analogy to discredit the argument that Shakespeare was Italian.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Sulaiman Ibrahim Babaji -
Let's start by discussing the three important patterns of argument: modus ponens, modus tollens, and reductio ad absurdum.

1. Modus Ponens (Affirming the Antecedent)

Form:

If P, then Q.

P.

Therefore, Q.


Example:

If it rains, the ground will be wet.

It is raining.

Therefore, the ground is wet.


2. Modus Tollens (Denying the Consequent)

Form:

If P, then Q.

Not Q.

Therefore, not P.


Example:

If the alarm is set off, the light will turn on.

The light did not turn on.

Therefore, the alarm was not set off.


3. Reductio ad Absurdum (Reducing to Absurdity)

Form:

Assume P.

If P leads to a contradiction or an absurd result, then P is false.


Example:

Assume that all students are required to wear uniforms.

If all students are required to wear uniforms, then even the teacher must wear one.

This leads to an absurd result because teachers are not students.

Therefore, the assumption is false, and not all students should be required to wear uniforms.



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Argument from Graham Simpson's Response to the Shakespeare Debate

The argument made by Graham Simpson in the response to the article claiming that Shakespeare was Italian can be analyzed as follows:

Main Conclusion:

Shakespeare was not Italian.


Premises:

1. Almost half of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy.


2. Almost all of Isaac Asimov's novels are set in outer space.


3. It is illogical to conclude that Isaac Asimov was a Martian just because his novels are set in outer space.


4. Therefore, it is illogical to conclude that Shakespeare was Italian just because some of his plays are set in Italy.
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Re: Discussion: Argument Analysis

by Sultan Soherwardi -
1. **Modus Ponens:**
- If it rains, the ground will be wet.
- It is raining.
- ∴ The ground is wet.

2. **Modus Tollens:**
- If a person is a doctor, they completed medical school.
- This person did not complete medical school.
- ∴ They are not a doctor.

3. **Reductio ad Absurdum:**
- Assume square circles exist.
- Squares have four sides; circles have none.
- Contradiction → ∴ Square circles cannot exist.

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### **Analysis of Shakespeare Argument:**

**Main Conclusion:**
The reasoning that Shakespeare was Italian because his plays are set in Italy is flawed.

**Premises:**
1. Many of Shakespeare’s plays are set in Italy.
2. Most of Asimov’s novels are set in space.
3. Asimov was not a Martian.
4. ∴ Setting does not determine nationality.

**Logical Pattern:**
Uses **reductio ad absurdum**—applying the same logic to Asimov leads to an absurd conclusion, proving the original argument false.